Common gamer-professional wisdom is to not publically disagree with the fans if you can help it. Silence is less likely to breed bad will than argument. But I'm done worrying about fan reaction to my non-game material. If you have an issue with my work, bring it on. If you don't like my other opinions, I don't much care anymore. I'm not paid enough by this industry as a whole to censor myself. I'm a freelancer, so I reflect only on myself. I know what I know, and I am very rarely wrong about these things.
It's some months before Dragon and Dungeon cease print publication. Heck, it's some months before Gen Con, where people will surely talk about this. It is, therefore, some months before WotC really needs to start advertising what they plan to do with those brands next, though it looks to me like online magazines of some sort with the Dragon and Dungeon names (perhaps different sections of the same online mag, or perhaps actually different subscriptions) are very likely.
Right now, a lot of people are up in arms about how the announcements of the cancellation of the print versions were handled by WotC. Of course I posted my own thoughts just last week, but nowhere in them did I saw I felt betrayed or felt the decision was a mistake. I was dismayed, because something I have loved is going away, but I have no reasons to think it won't be replaced by things that are as good if not better. From the Paizo side, Pathfinder sounds great and I'm hoping to be part of it (and already pestering a contact or two to make that a reality). Most people seem satisfied that Paizo is going to be fine, Paizo included, so at least I know the actual human beings financially involved in this are going to be okay.
On the WotC side, people seem upset to an extreme I can't understand (though I am not surprised). Yes, it's sad that things are changing. But.... things change. I presume WotC wants to be the premiere web site for all things D&D, which makes sense. They've seen how useful a good web portal can be to reaching and communicating with fans, but right now there are other sites that are more popular than WotC's with many folks. The problem with that is that those sites are run by people with their own agendas. WotC never knows when a site owner might decide to change how things are done, or decide he hates them and their game, or even publicly attack them as rude and unnecessary to his site's success. Why deal with those risks if you don't have to?
So obviously, WotC needs to provide some valuable content if they're going to be the #1 D&D site. One thing they can offer that no one else can is official content. That content is likely to be more popular if it's the lone source for such things. Thus, print versions of Dragon and Dungeon become competition for the web site WotC wants to build. They're licensed products, so WotC doesn't renew Paizo's right to keep them in print. The two companies come to amicable agreements, and then the fans are told.
One major complaint I have heard is that this was done "without warning." That's stupid. This is April, the print run ends in September. That's half a year's warning. If you mean the decision was made with no opportunity for fans to complain before it was settled, you're right. But since fans rarely mean what they say about things like this (see below), most companies don't run major decisions by them. In the case of WotC, there can actually be SEC considerations about when information on new products is released and how those decisions were made.
"Listening to your fans" means seeing how they actually react to your material, and if they have good suggestions implement them. It doesn't mean to let fans decide how you're going to spend your money and renew your licenses. This is especially true when you're bigger. The number of people shrieking loudly on the web is a very, very small portion of WotC's customers. Insignificant, even. And, folks, you are not representative. Just because 75% of people who post about a thing online hate it, doesn't mean 75% of the people buying their products hate it. WotC can actually do market research in scientifically valid numbers. There's no reason to think they haven't.
The next major complaint seems to be that WotC employees aren't getting on other websites and talking about why they made this (apparently unpopular) decisions, and that they aren't willing to talk about changing their minds.
Well, duh. Why should they?
It's difficult for anyone not part of a given big corporate culture to understand how little the advice, opinions, ideas, pleas and threats of the online community seem to translate into customer behavior. This is particularly true of corporations in the business of selling hobby products, where people often get invested out of proportion with the actual importance of a change to their lives. People on bulletin boards and fan sites often think their experiences and opinions are representative of the fans of a product as a whole, and thus what they say should be taken very, very seriously.
The problem is, a lot of them say some stupid stuff. If you equate the end of the print run of a magazine with being sexually assaulted, no professional is going to take you seriously. And if you say you're going to boycott the company. They're going to ignore that too. Why?
Because "you" have said it before.
Okay, maybe not you personally (though with the anonymity of the internet, even that isn't assured). The point is that people threatened to boycott WotC when it decided to produce a third edition of D&D. People threatened boycotts when they went with 3.5 just a few years later. They threatened boycotts when the Ares section was taken out of Dragon decades ago, or when Polyhedron was added to Dungeon, and then again when it was removed, or when the Annuals were discontinued. And yet, products continue to sell.
Nerd rage like this just doesn't last long. By the time Gen Con rolls around, not 10% of these people are still going to be this upset. If the web content is good, they'll buy it, if it isn't, they won't. I've heard a lot of people claim WotC is ignoring fans, and a lot of people claim this is the rpg version of New Coke. Of course, New Coke was brought about by fans who, in blind taste tests, claimed they liked it better than old Coke. So, WotC can't both be ignoring you, and following the New coke model. Oh, and Coke? Still there, despite the initial outrage.
Even worse, in the unlikely even everyone currently upset stays upset, it needn't seriously impact the success of the online initiative. WotC can advertise for their online content in new D&D releases. As such, they can reach a vast portion of their fans who don't care about unofficial web sites. People who aren't even aware of the current kerfuffle. People who outnumber all the posters of all the fan sites put together.
Will those people buy into the online initiative? I have no idea. But since WotC can pass out free trial memberships at little cost, give out coupons at the D&D Experience, get word out in every book they produce (fiction and game book alike), and even buy advertising in big national media, they have lots more important things to worry about than one or two fan sites run by people who can remove support at a whim and frequented by folks who have shown a willingness to compare corporate decisions to heinous crimes of personal violation, and assume such decisions are glaringly stupid with no consideration for history (seriously, I have saved posts from people declaring 3.5 was the end of D&D that sound a LOT like what I'm reading now), or information WotC has that they don't.
It's a New Era, not the end of all D&D support. Paizo says they're going to be fine, and I'm not going to call them liars. WotC has extended their license and allowed them to have the spotlight for several months, both of which are gracious acts by a big corporation. We have to wait and see what is going to replace Dragon and Dungeon, but until we see it there's no point is deciding it's a failure.
Most fans, of course, are going to wait and see quietly enough. And those who don't have every right to scream to the sky – I'm certainly not suggesting they shouldn't. But don't be surprised if that has no impact on what the subsidiary of a publically held company does with one of its major brands.
I, of course, have no inside input. I'm just another fan, spitting my $.02 into the wind like everyone else. This post is no more valuable than any other you'll find. I rarely come out and make predictions, but I'm betting this will have died down within 30 days.
I mourned for the print Dragon, because it was a marker of milestones in my life. But if Pathfinder and the Online Initiative are good, a year from now I may well not miss it.
April 23 2007, 21:17:30 UTC 5 years ago
GEE! THANKS FOR MAKING ME FEEL LIKE I AM CRAP!
:(April 23 2007, 22:28:13 UTC 5 years ago
Re: GEE! THANKS FOR MAKING ME FEEL LIKE I AM CRAP!
It wasn't my intention to make anyone feel bad, and I wasn't trying to single anyone out. For bringing down your mood in what ought to be a happy place, however, I do apologize.
April 24 2007, 00:42:32 UTC 5 years ago
Re: GEE! THANKS FOR MAKING ME FEEL LIKE I AM CRAP!
I Know it just hurts;and this made me feel more unimportant. :( I been getting Dragon since 81.5 years ago
April 23 2007, 21:21:37 UTC 5 years ago
April 23 2007, 22:45:00 UTC 5 years ago
Well Said, Owen
And, really, there's nothing that I can add to that sentiment.JD
Anonymous
April 23 2007, 23:53:05 UTC 5 years ago
Re: Well Said, Owen
The thing that is informing my own particular "nerd rage" is that I would have almost certainly bought their digital initiative *anyway*.So regardless of how good or bad the DI turns out to be, this decision has taken away a useful and important resource from me. *That* is why I'm annoyed.
I haven't threatened to boycott anything, of course. I feel pretty powerless in the end, because I know I won't be able to resist subscribing - and so I have no other real outlet to express my disappointment to WotC over this discussion than forums like message board posts. I think that I'm probably not the only one in this boat. Basically I really don't feel like this had to be an either/or situation.
IanB
April 24 2007, 00:01:03 UTC 5 years ago
Paizo, with the same advance warning that WotC had, but together a a few idea's about a new product line, a plan for handling subscriptions and actively communicated with their customers who they correctly knew would be distraught and upset.
WotC on the other hand avoided saying or doing anything except an ill-advised walk down memory lane that many feel was taunting and similar to throwing salt on an open wound.
IMHO WotC showed either a complete inability to understand their customers or a callous disregard of the emotions they knew would be expressed. In either case I put the blame for the extent of the firestorm at their feet.
April 24 2007, 00:24:37 UTC 5 years ago
April 24 2007, 00:18:57 UTC 5 years ago
But they didn't. They have a vague promise (and it is vague) that DI will be really great, which is really no news at all. It's hard to look forward to something that you have absolutely no information on.
Personally, I doubt I'll spend the money. "Pathfinder" looks pretty good, and I don't subscribe to websites as a general rule. The material in Dragon was spotty enough for awhile that I let my subscription lapse and just picked up occasional newsstand issues, which I could page through and extensively preview. If I do get DI, it'd probably be to investigate submission possibilities - ironically, I had just started thinking about submitting to Dragon again. I have my doubts that DI will be as freelancer/submission friendly as Dragon or Dungeon, though, or as broad in topics and content, but there's little we can do but hope. The die is thrown, so to speak.
April 24 2007, 00:23:05 UTC 5 years ago
Result: Ill will, which is entirely deserved.
Paizo is directly engaging its customers and exciting people about their shiny new product.
WotC has deliberately chosen not to. Its strategy is stone cold contemptive silence.
Result: I voted with my dollars.
April 24 2007, 00:24:20 UTC 5 years ago
What you're seeing is a purely emotional response, not a rational one. Why? Because the vast majority of gamers have never NOT had Dragon and Dungeon in their lives. The two magazines are intimately caught up in a multitude of memories about gaming. Peoples' reaction isn't that the magazines are being canceled, it's that WotC is ruining their nostalgia by destroying a constant in their gaming life.
That's a big deal to people. What college sports teams are to folks in the south, Dragon and Dungeon are to gamers. The same quality and quantity of emotional response applies.
As such, the quantity of displeasure that people are showing isn't really something that can be rationalized away. I think WotC has a tremendous opportunity, as you noted, but I'll reserve judgment on the wisdom of the original decision.
- Kevin Kulp / Piratecat (via EN World)
April 24 2007, 04:24:02 UTC 5 years ago
Not only have I never considered it not being there, but I also felt it would be there for when my son gets older - a nerd version of passing on the Playboy collection. *grins*
As time goes on, though, us gamers are gonna have to get use to a lot of loss of icons in gamer and I do not mean the ones on paper, but those who put the ink down ahead of us.
I won't curse anyone by naming names, but I'm pretty sure most of us know what I mean and the various who's who - in fact, we lost Tom Moldvay this week and, if not for the Dragon and Dungeon event, it would have probably been a lot more of the communities' talks.
WotC could have dome some damage control sooner, but I can't fault them on not suspecting things would blowout this huge and fast. Sometimes I think the insulation of society and the Internet has amplified grief reaction to size ratios.
Basically, it blows up quick and fast - a nuclear land mine, more or less.
I have to admit, although I'm not a fan (at all) of losing Dragon and Dungeon in print, if the DI is really the cat's meow and hands down the next big thing, then I'll probably sign up.
I know I feel that Pathfinder is the next big thing and I'm already throwing my support behind that.
April 24 2007, 01:01:26 UTC 5 years ago
I find it curious that they are ending Dragon at #359, 1 issue before the '30th anniversary' of 360.
Maybe they plan on this causing big attention to Dragon and Dungeon, and then they'll turn around, and start em up again inhouse or something.
Besides all that, I wonder what they know that we don't. What are the successful online magazines? Pyramid? How does it compare to Dragon in print? I'm not even sure what other online subscription content for gaming is out there and making money.
April 25 2007, 03:22:13 UTC 5 years ago
All I know of are Pyramid and the Traveller Aid society online that SJG does. There may, of course, be more.
My guess is that WotC's market analysis tells them this will work. I don't know if they're right, but it'll be interesting to see.
April 24 2007, 01:38:06 UTC 5 years ago
Some interesting points.
Some interesting points, though I am not sure people's reactions need to be marginalized to make them. This reaction to the reaction of the announcement does not seem to heed its own credo.As always,
Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
April 25 2007, 03:24:43 UTC 5 years ago
Re: Some interesting points.
Really? I hadn't thought I was at all over the top in my reaction. I mean, I didn't call people crybabies or sissies or tell them their reaction killed my inner child.Still, perhaps I doth protest too much. I'll consider that.
April 25 2007, 14:02:19 UTC 5 years ago
Re: Some interesting points.
No need for the strawman. I don't call your missive "over the top" or even claim it is an inaccurate position to hold. However, repeatedly using the word "stupid" in your dismissal of public reaction to this major announcement is likely enough to marginalize people's reaction as calling "people crybabies or sissies or tell them their reaction killed my inner child." Surely you would not have begun the article with the caveat "If you don't like my other opinions, I don't much care anymore" if you hadn't planned on purposefully poking the bear a bit.April 24 2007, 03:28:38 UTC 5 years ago
Although I am a little upset that I found this out just after I made a 1 year subscription. :(
April 25 2007, 03:25:18 UTC 5 years ago
April 24 2007, 04:17:24 UTC 5 years ago
As a fan site admin and owner, game designer, and gamer, I have seen this all before too. Most of the people complaining are the ones who have complained every time, most the time they are not even part of the purchasing consumer. All they do is seek attention in their complaints.
Although, Dungeon and Dragon Magazine will be missed, they have been something I looked forward to in my mailbox, month after month, year after year. But, to get all crazy and complain will never change their mind. They (WotC) has to think about money in the end, that is why they are in business. It is the end of an era for RPG's when Dungeon and Dragon end, but that doesn't mean that we won't see another great online product, I will just miss that tangible magazine. I think it is the same reason I will never fall in line with the friends of mine that have .pdf copies of a bunch of books. I like the tangible book. I will look into WotC's new online stuff, hopefully it is cool.
April 24 2007, 14:14:39 UTC 5 years ago
For me at least with the Digital Initiative, I'll wait and see. I mean we can complain once it's already out, not before. =) And if it's good, we'll send WotC our money. If not, we can spend our money elsewhere.
I also think WotC shouldn't necessarily announce right now what they have in store. I mean Dragon/Dungeon is still being published after all (and it's not dead!). And in a way, not making an announcement is also helping Paizo as they have been quite vocal of what they have in store after Dragon/Dungeon (and they have my support).
April 26 2007, 15:51:21 UTC 5 years ago
The good news for the rest of the hobby is that this will likely be a further reduction in the percentages for which D&D was the gateway game that hasn't been seen since the original release of Vampire. The bad news is it won't be because a new group of people have entered the hobby, but instead because D&D has lost a banner publication or two.
For the existing D&D community this could be a great thing - if they follow through with digital content delivery and community building.
June 26 2007, 17:39:59 UTC 4 years ago
Not enraged, just dissappointed
"Big corporation" and "gracious" do not sound quite right in the same sentence, not to mention out of character for WotC. Stock holders have no interest in being gracious to their competition. It just seems odd that WotC did not immediately prepare and post some "teasers" about what they allegedly plan to unveil with more and more material becoming available over time. That's the way new releases of almost anything are handled. Even assuming they were contractually bound to give Paizo X months notice before terminating the license and perhaps not allowed to compete with them during that period, that doesn't mean they could not disclose such an arrangement. "Sorry fans, we can't tell you more about the new DI just yet because..." The more plausible explanation is that the whole thing was mismanaged by them and they just don't have anything ready. Perhaps slapping together a staff of writers, editors and artists that are truly knowledgeable about this stuff (and not already working for Paizo) is not that easy. It is now June and still no word? It doesn't seem gracious, it seems like a missed opportunity to grab new subscribers. In fact, every day between now and the release of Pathfinder is another missed opportunity.June 26 2007, 17:54:41 UTC 4 years ago
Re: Not enraged, just dissappointed
I now see my above comments are a week late. Still, I think the change was mismanaged. Let's see how Gleemax develops.June 26 2007, 17:40:32 UTC 4 years ago
Not enraged, just dissappointed
"Big corporation" and "gracious" do not sound quite right in the same sentence, not to mention out of character for WotC. Stock holders have no interest in being gracious to their competition. It just seems odd that WotC did not immediately prepare and post some "teasers" about what they allegedly plan to unveil with more and more material becoming available over time. That's the way new releases of almost anything are handled. Even assuming they were contractually bound to give Paizo X months notice before terminating the license and perhaps not allowed to compete with them during that period, that doesn't mean they could not disclose such an arrangement. "Sorry fans, we can't tell you more about the new DI just yet because..." The more plausible explanation is that the whole thing was mismanaged by them and they just don't have anything ready. Perhaps slapping together a staff of writers, editors and artists that are truly knowledgeable about this stuff (and not already working for Paizo) is not that easy. It is now June and still no word? It doesn't seem gracious, it seems like a missed opportunity to grab new subscribers. In fact, every day between now and the release of Pathfinder is another missed opportunity.